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Comments on How can we have free will without sin in heaven, but can't do so on earth?

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How can we have free will without sin in heaven, but can't do so on earth?

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The general explanation I've heard (if I can try to summarize it) for "the problem of evil", of why a good God allows evil things to happen in the world, is that God doesn't want "robots" as he wants people to choose to worship and follow him. And if we're given that free will, then inevitably we will at some point choose not to worship God. And that's what's behind the fall and sin and generally the source of evil, that at times people won't be choosing to follow God.

Now, that all actually makes perfect sense to me. My question is: Why doesn't that same logic apply to us in heaven? (Or the New Jerusalem or whatever name you want to use to describe believers' eternity together with God.)

That is, it seems that the logical conclusion is either (1) we don't actually have free will in heaven, so we can't choose to disobey God, or (2) it is possible (somehow) for God to make a place where we both have free will and yet cannot sin (as hard as it is for us to understand). If #1 is the answer, it seems weird that God would not want "robots" on earth but would be okay with them in heaven. But if #2 is the answer, you're just left with the original problem of evil: Why, if God can make such a place, would he have made Earth in a different way that allowed evil to exist rather than in a way that both allows for free will but without sin?

My background is Baptist (non-Calvinism Protestant), but I'm interested in hearing answers across the breadth of Christian traditions.

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it is possible (somehow) for God to make a place where we both have free will and yet cannot sin (as hard as it is for us to understand)

To understand whether this is possible or not, it is helpful to first look at our terms. What do we mean by "free will"?

In a bizarre, self-contradictory way it seems accepted wisdom that "free" means "free from all constraints". That's not a very useful concept, and is an oxymoron. We are better off asking questions like "what are we free from?", "what measure of freedom do we have?".

A more useful way to define "free will" is the freedom to follow our desires (our 'will') without coercion. Although we obviously can never have complete freedom in this regard, we certainly have some freedom. If we are rich and powerful we may even have more freedom than others do — though even the rich get ill (and die) when they do not want to. Conversely in some places and times, freedom is constrained, but still exists to a lesser degree.

Defined like that, we can see that a change in desire does not negate 'free will'. If we want to sin, we are free to sin. If the desire for sin is taken away from us, we are free to follow our other desires, without sin — especially if sin is fundamentally understood as being rooted in desire (see James 1:13-15 and 2 Peter 1:3-4).

Why doesn't that same logic apply to us in heaven?

The exact same logic applies in the new creation, if you allow that our desires can be altered without altering our freedom to live them out. This is the concept of Jeremiah's 'new covenant':

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Jeremiah 31:33 ESV)

The law written on their hearts denotes a change of heart; a change of desire. We were, are and always will be, free to follow our heart. We never were, are not and never will be, free from the power of God to change our heart.

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General comments (6 comments)
General comments
Peter Cooper Jr.‭ wrote about 4 years ago

Thanks; this is a useful perspective, though I'm not sure how I feel about the implication that God therefore must have created our hearts with the desire to sin even though he didn't need to.

mattbrent‭ wrote about 4 years ago

That line of thinking terminates in "why did God create us at all?" From which there is no definitive answer. I don't think he created us with the desire to sin. I think he created us with the ability to choose. When humans chose sin it fundamentally changed the relationship we had with God. He was no longer near, but afar.

qohelet‭ wrote about 4 years ago

Let’s discuss this further: https://christianity.codidact.com/q/279362

Peter Cooper Jr.‭ wrote about 4 years ago

Yikes, as I put in my comments to that meta question from @laserkittens, my comment was more about trying to understand the perspective than any attempt to disagree with it. Please interpret it in the most charitable way you can. :)

Jack Douglas‭ wrote almost 4 years ago

@Peter The logic of your comment seems very similar to the logic of the dialectic in Romans 9:19-23. It's an important moral question to be sure, but any theological framework will leave you with uncomfortable questions to answer. When thinking about other peoples' frameworks, it's helpful to think about the problems they solve as well as the new problems they seem to create.

Jack Douglas‭ wrote almost 4 years ago

@mattbrent you aren't saying humans chose sin before we desired it, are you?